Posted by: mystic444 | October 27, 2012

Is Jesus God?

I haven’t written anything recently about Bible verses that seem to teach the Deity of Jesus Christ. However someone just commented on my article Is It Necessary To Believe That Jesus Is The One True God In Order To Be A Christian?, seeking to prove that Jesus is indeed God. I’ve decided to print his comment and my response, in order to comment on a few verses I haven’t dealt with previously. Here’s his comment:

Hello,
I will say you are mistaken cos you need to read the bible carefully cos right from the gospel of john THE WORD WITH GOD IS ALSO GOD as john says in john 1vs 1.the bible does not contradict itself,the fact that jesus made that statement in john 17 vs 3 does not make jesus to deny his diety cos he is one GOD with the father,the gospel of john woild not contradict itself.
Even before jesus came to the world the prophesy about him to us that the one coming is GOD, I GUESS YOU DID NOT READ THAT HERE ARE THE VERSES: Isaiah 9vs6,Isaiah 7vs14 confirm in matthew 1vs23,Jeremiah 23vs5&6.
And the important verse carefully read and see for yourself its ISAIAH 40 VS 3.The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness,prepare ye the way of the (LORD)make straight in the desert a highway for our GOD.this is obviously a prophecy about john the baptist,the fore runner of jesus but here is this verse it shows us that john is to prepare the way for our GOD and who was our GOD that came that john prepared the way for? ANSWER IS JESUS CHRIST confirmed in the same gospel of john, read john 1vs23. john himself confirmed the prophecy of isaiah.
There are many old testament verses that i can tell you but i believe the verses above is enough to convince you about the deity of JESUS except if you dont want to be sincere and now let me go to the new testament and give you verse declaring JESUS DEITY THAT HE IS GOD:
phillipians 2vs 6,,titus 2vs13,colossians 2vs9.i believe thats also ok for you though there are many verses.
Even in colossians 1vs15 it says jesus is the visible aspect of the invisible God that we can see then how can he not be one true God with the father.even the father called his Son(jesus) GOD in hebrew 1vs8&9.now if the FATHER calls his Son God,should you have problem to call JESUS GOD too?

If Jesus is not God then he cannot save a single soul,cos in Isaiah 43vs11,God said there is no Savior beside him and Jesus is the only Savior of the WHOLE WORLD.see verses Luke 2vs11,philippains 3vs20.even the Father sent his Son to be the savior of the world(1john4vs14)as i have said before there are many verses but i believe this ok for you if you are sincerely interested in know the truth more.

1john 5vs7 confirms the word TRINITY and lastly 1john3vs16 says hereby perceive we the Love of God,because he died for us.can you now see that this is referring to Jesus,it says GOD died for us but will all know that the God in this verse is Jesus,also see act 20vs28.

If you are a sincere Christian and not a deceiver then you will agree that Jesus in one True God with the Father and so is the Holy spirit.you will need to read the bible through to telly [fully?]  establish the truth about christ. please do email cos i love as a brother in Christ and put in the subject line – Jesus is God,so that i can know the email is from you.

JESUS BLESS YOU

 

Now here is my reply:

I appreciate your taking the time to write out that reply to my article. If I send you an e-mail, I will most certainly not put the subject line you requested in it. I may copy this reply into an e-mail with the subject line something like “Jesus is NOT God” though. :smile:

Most of the objections you make I have covered in other articles. First, I will state that Bible inerrancy is no part of my belief system. There are many errors and contradictions in the Bible. Two articles I wrote about this (I think they were my first two articles, other than the “Hello World” article) are: Bible Errors and Bible Absurdities and Contradictions.

In the “Bible Errors” article, the very first error I dealt with was Matthew’s handling of Isaiah’s prophecy in Isaiah 7:14. Any honest reading of Isaiah will show that he was not talking about a child to be born several hundred years in the future, but rather one of his children to be born very soon – certainly within the lifetimes of the two kings the Jewish people feared. The child was to be born in their lifetime, and before he reached the age to distinguish good from evil those kings would be defeated and their land deserted. The name “God is with us” (Immanuel) was a symbolic name (as were the names of all of Isaiah’s sons); it did not indicate that the child was “God incarnate”, but was a sign that would remind the Israelites (every time the name was mentioned) that God was indeed with them.

I’m not going to respond here to all of the Bible references you gave, because many of them are covered in my articles. You can look at the right side of the page under the “Categories” section, and click on the “Unitarianism” category to see the various articles I have written about this subject. John 1:1-3 is commented on in the first of my “Bible Verses That Seem To Teach That Jesus Is The One True God” series. I will respond to some of them that I don’t believe I’ve commented on before.

Isaiah 9:6 is an interesting verse. As it reads in most English versions (“his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace” – English Standard Version), the child is said to be the “Everlasting Father” (or “Father of the ages”). If the child is Jesus, and he is the Father, that would destroy the doctrine of the Trinity which insists on the ‘personal distinctions’ in the Trinity: the Father is not the Son or the Holy Spirit; the Son is not the Father or the Holy Spirit; etc. The three constitute one “God” or “Godhead”, but they are not to be confused with one another.

However, the verse might perhaps be somewhat freely rendered this way: “his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor [sent from] the Mighty God [Who is] the Everlasting Father; [he will also be called] the Prince of Peace.” On the other hand, it’s instructive to see how the 70 Jewish scholars who gave us the Greek Septuagint version rendered this verse (again using the Brenton English version of the Septuagint): “and his name is called the Messenger of great counsel: for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him.” Now that would give quite a different perspective on the verse, wouldn’t it?

When Titus 2:13 is properly translated it does not in fact say that Jesus is God. Literally rendered, the verse says “looking for the blessed hope and appearance of the glory of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ”. Notice that it does not say the great God will appear, but that His glory will appear, and our savior Jesus Christ will appear. The apparent meaning is that the glory of God will be manifested when Jesus Christ appears. This is not a statement that Jesus is God, but that God’s glory shines in the man Jesus Christ – as it ought to shine (and one day will shine) in each of his ‘brothers’. Indeed, the glory of God shines in all of creation.

As for Jesus being the ‘savior’ of the world, consider Nehemiah 9:27 and Obadiah 1:21; where it is said that God sends ‘saviors’ (plural) to His people. While God is ultimately the “only savior”, nevertheless the judges, kings, prophets and other messengers whom He sends are called ‘saviors’ since they deliver God’s messages of warning and deliverance, and powerfully bring God’s salvation to His people from time to time. So Jesus was and is one of those saviors sent by God (indeed, among the greatest of them), who spoke and acted as God’s representative to humankind.

The prophecy of Isaiah in chapter 40, as fulfilled in John the Baptist, is also easy to understand: he was to call upon the people of Israel to “prepare the way for the LORD” in their hearts and lives. Another messenger followed him who did the same thing: Jesus Christ whom Christians see as the “messenger of the covenant” prophesied by Malachi (3:1). Despite the (apparently deliberate) mistranslation of this passage by the Gospel writers (Matthew, Mark, and Luke), Malachi wrote: “Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before ME: and the Lord,” [‘adon’, used of both God and men] “whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD” [‘YHWH’, used only of the One God] “of hosts.” Just as John was to call upon the people to prepare the LORD’s (YHWH) way, so the “messenger of the covenant”, “the lord whom ye seek”, would prepare the way of the LORD. So, assuming that Jesus Christ is that “messenger of the covenant” and “lord”, his ministry was the same as John’s: “prepare the way of the LORD”. He was not the LORD, but he prepared His way.

The gospel writers mistranslated Malachi to force it to be a message addressed to “the messenger of the covenant” (rather than about him) about another messenger who would prepare his way – not “My” (YHWH’s) way. I consider this to be deliberate mistranslation, inasmuch as the Greek Septuagint version itself does not back up their mistranslation. It reads: “Behold, I send forth my messenger,” [‘aggelos’/angel) “and he shall survey the way before me:“[literally “my face“] “and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come into his temple, even the angel” [same as the word previously translated “messenger”: aggelos] “of the covenant, whom ye take pleasure in: behold, he is coming, saith the Lord Almighty.” (The English translations of the Septuagint used by me are those of Brenton, with my comments in brackets.)

As to 1 John 3:16, the response to that is quite simple. You will notice that “of God” is (in the KJV which you apparently use) in italics, indicating that the phrase is an interpretive addition by the translators.. The verse actually says that we can perceive love by the fact that “he died for us”. Who is “he”? Obviously it is “the man Christ Jesus” (whom John had referred to as God’s son – who is one among many, as the Psalmist had said in Psalm 82:6, “you are all sons of the Most High”). He died for us as an example of how we can find the life of God: by metaphorically taking up our own crosses and ‘following him’ in giving up our attachment to the things of this world in favor of the things of God.

The verse about the “three witnesses in heaven” (the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit) – 1 John 5:7 – is admitted by virtually everybody to be a deliberate (and wrongful) interpolation by Trinitarian scribes in order to bolster the man-made doctrine of the “Trinity”. Even the New King James Version acknowledges in a footnote that the Majority Text does not contain that verse; it appears only in 4 or 5 very ‘late’ texts. It is said that the original editor of what has become known as “the Received Text” (I believe it was Erasmus) was not going to include that verse in his edition. When orthodox scholars protested, he challenged them to produce just one Greek text that contained the verse and he would include it in his edition. The scholars did manage finally to produce one such text, so Erasmus kept his end of the bargain. :lol: However, even then real scholars recognized that the verse was completely spurious.

As usual, I don’t seem to be able to be brief. :grin: I hope these comments, together with my other articles about the Unity of God (and Bible errors), will be sufficient to show that the teaching of the “Trinity” and the “Deity of Christ” is simply not in the Bible. Those are simply man-made errors.

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Responses

  1. The Trinity is a tough concept to understand and to explain. So if you don’t mind, I will try to explain to you why I believe that the in the doctrine of the Trinity. First, I don’t think any human can completely understand God. But we can understand a lot about him. One of the things that I believe that jews, christians, and muslims can agree with concerning God is that there has never been a time that he has not existed. The way God is now and the way God was before the creation and will be in the future is the same, and he is not subjected to time. He always is the same. Ok, so your may be wondering why do I believe believe that Jesus is God? I mean he had a beginning and was born of Mary. John 8:56-59 has the been a key verse in understanding the divinity of Jesus. It states “Your ancestor Abraham rejoiced that he wouldsee my day: he saw it and was glad. Then the Jews said to him, ” You are not yet fifty years old, and have seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Very truly, I tell you, before Abraham was, I am.” So Jesus is saying he existed before he was born. He must have existed in some other form. The key in understanding the Trinity is first understanding that there was a time this physical realm (where we exist) and the spritual realm(where angles exist) did not exist. Had Satan asked the Holy Spirit where he was before the creation of the spritual realm, he would have communicated, “before the spiritual realm, I am.”

    I know you as Mystic444. If this was thirty of forty years ago, would I be correct in saying Mystic444 does not exist? No, (I am assuming your older than forty) you existed just different than you do now. You exist as Mystic444 because that is the way you can communicate with us in this cyberworld. I hope this makes sense. I am still trying to figure an easy way to understand a complex issue. I am just trying to get you to understand my view and why I believe in the Trinity. You don’t have to agree with me. Since you are well versed in scripture, I used it only once. Hopefully I gave you something to think about.

    • Thank you, Rich, for that courteous comment. Because the points you make are fairly common arguments used against people like me who deny the “Trinity” and the deity of Jesus Christ, I decided to ‘reply’ to you in another blog article, Part 2 of Is Jesus God. Since your comment was already ‘public’ on this blog post, I figured it should be okay to reprint it in the blog article. I hope you will find that I have been as courteous in my ‘reply’ as you were in your comment.

  2. Here is my new Prophecy Chart showing Jesus is God:
    http://jesusisgod.com/PROPHECYCHARTJESUSISGOD.htm


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